An exclusive interview with Davlat Usmon, one of the former leaders of the Tajik opposition and former Minister of Finance of Tajikistan, about Ahmad Shah Massoud
Author: Fakhriddin Kholbek, Sputnik Tajikistan
(This interview was published in September 2020 in Sputnik Tajikistan (Russia) – Sangar)
On September 9, 2001, Ahmad Shah Massoud, the commander of the Afghan Resistance Front, was killed by two Arab terrorists who came for an interview disguised as journalists.
Since then, dozens of books, articles, and documentary films have been published about this event — and they continue to appear today. The interviewee of Sputnik Tajikistan is a person who met with Commander Massoud many times and stayed in contact with him until the end of his life.
Davlat Usmon, one of the former leaders of the United Tajik Opposition (UTO), former Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Economy of Tajikistan, spent the years 1992–1996 among the opposition and Tajik refugees in Afghanistan. He served as the link between the United Tajik Opposition (UTO) and Ahmad Shah Massoud, who at that time held the post of Minister of Defense of Afghanistan.
Sputnik Tajikistan first asked him about his first meeting with Massoud.
— It was in December 1992. I was the Deputy Prime Minister of Tajikistan and was in Jeddah (Saudi Arabia) to participate in a meeting of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC). On December 2, 1992, we made Tajikistan a member of this organization. But the situation in Tajikistan was critical. Even there, in Saudi Arabia, global media were reporting that fighting was intensifying in the south of Tajikistan and people were fleeing to Afghanistan. This made my return to Dushanbe impossible. I came to the conclusion that I should enter Afghanistan through Iran and Pakistan, and from there reach Badakhshan (Tajikistan).
I arrived in Kabul. The President of Afghanistan, the late Professor Rabbani, received me. At the end of the meeting, he said that I needed to meet another person, but did not mention his name. I thought it would be someone responsible for maintaining contact with us.
That same evening, I was taken to the villas in the Wazir Akbar Khan district. Around 9–10 p.m., the late Ahmad Shah Massoud arrived. He asked me to explain the situation in Tajikistan. I spoke for two hours. I must say that I met such a person for the first time in my life: he listened attentively and did not interrupt even once! It became 3 a.m. He said we would continue the conversation tomorrow. And he left…
HEKMATYAR, OSAMA BIN LADEN, AND MULLAH OMAR ON MASSOUD
— What were the roots of the contradictions between Ahmad Shah Massoud and Gulbuddin Hekmatyar?
— These contradictions had both ethnic and personal dimensions. I met Hekmatyar several times. He did not acknowledge anyone above himself and wanted to be number one among Afghan leaders. Massoud was a strong personality. In some respects, he surpassed Hekmatyar. Therefore, Hekmatyar considered him a serious obstacle to achieving his goals.
— What views did Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar — former leaders of al-Qaeda and the Taliban — have about Massoud?
— Members of al-Qaeda stopped us on the Peshawar–Kabul road and took us to Osama bin Laden, who was in Jalalabad. He asked us — me and Muhammadsharif Himmatzoda, one of the former leaders of the Islamic Renaissance Party — to join him, but we said we would not join any force and would return to our homeland. We did not talk about Massoud. But you know that Massoud and bin Laden were in two opposing camps and did not acknowledge each other at all. It is now proven that it was al-Qaeda members who assassinated Massoud.
We had one conversation with Mullah Omar. The Taliban once stopped our plane — the plane of Tajik opposition leaders returning from Tehran to Talokan — in the airspace of Herat and forced it to land. The delegation was taken to Kandahar. Mullah Omar met us at the airport, but received only me and the late Ustod Nuri, the leader of the Tajik opposition. The conversation took place in his car. Ustod Nuri asked Mullah Omar to make peace with Massoud, since he, Rabbani, Sayyaf, and others were all leaders of jihad, not unbelievers, and besides, the Taliban held strong positions. Mullah Omar pointed to the Kalashnikov rifle in his hands and said, “Mullah Sahib, in Afghanistan, this decides everything!”
Mullah Omar fought against Massoud, but as a person, he respected him.
— What did Massoud say about Hekmatyar, Mullah Omar, and Osama bin Laden?
— Massoud was an extraordinary man. If you asked about any colleague, friend, or companion, he would briefly say: “A good person.” And he would add nothing more. But he never spoke about those he did not respect. He never said that Hekmatyar, Osama, or Mullah Omar were bad people. I do not remember Massoud ever insulting anyone or speaking ill of anyone.
Look, he never discussed with us the problems he had inside Afghanistan. He did not interfere in our relations with Hekmatyar, the Taliban, or his other rivals — on the contrary, he welcomed them. He said it was wise not to get involved in our misfortunes.
“NATIONALIST,” “KGB AGENT,” “IRAN’S PUPPET”…
- Massoud’s opponents called him a nationalist who, as a Tajik, wanted to bring Tajiks to power. Was that true?
- Massoud respected his religious beliefs and values. In Islam, ethnicity is not decisive. Massoud wanted to see a God-fearing person with national and pan-Afghan thinking at the head of Afghanistan. He did not care which ethnic group this person belonged to. He wanted a government that the people would accept, and that would not be under the influence of foreign states. He did not accept the Taliban precisely because they were a Pakistani proxy force.
- Massoud was called a “KGB agent” or “Iran’s puppet” because he cooperated with Russia and Iran. How do you assess this?
- Massoud, simply put, was an agent and puppet of Afghanistan and its people. From January to April 1993, I participated as an observer in three or four Massoud meetings focused on domestic politics. I knew his views well.
The U.S., Pakistan, and Gulf countries, by bringing the Taliban (an organization banned in Russia) onto the Afghan stage, effectively began the process of sidelining Massoud. They did not recognize Rabbani’s government, which was mainly composed of Tajiks. Massoud was forced to seek alliances with Russia, Iran, and India. And these countries, too, in this proxy war, needed Massoud.
Russia and the U.S., Saudi Arabia and Iran, India and Pakistan — everywhere possible, they compete and continue to compete. Massoud said he would cooperate with any power that respects Afghanistan’s freedom and dignity.
I remember in 1995, when Kabul was under Massoud’s control, the Saudi Minister of Security, Turki al-Faisal, arrived. Massoud told him that he was ready to accept all political movements, including Hekmatyar — provided that Saudi Arabia would prevent Pakistan’s interference in Afghanistan’s internal affairs. It was clear that he wanted the Afghan people themselves to determine their fate, not a group installed by foreign powers.
- What was Massoud’s view on U.S. policies in Afghanistan?
- Once we were at the Istalif Palace (Parwan province). One or two days earlier, Massoud had met there with Robin Raphel, assistant to the U.S. Secretary of State. He looked very emotional. I asked what had happened. He immediately said, “The Americans are very shameless. Ms. Raphel says you must step down from power! Let us establish a technocratic government in Afghanistan. I said: What, are we not a nation? Why have we fought for so many years? Fine, we accept your democracy. Allow political parties to operate freely, let the Afghan people choose. She did not accept us, that’s it! Bring your candidate. But there must be elections. Do not humiliate our honor and dignity. Spend money to ensure your candidate wins and becomes the president of Afghanistan. If the people choose him, we will accept him.”
He spoke with great passion. He said that when Raphael resorted to threats, his pride surged, and he told her: You can do nothing in Afghanistan. “If you bring the entire U.S. army, I will fight against you!” — he said, pointing at her.
Then Massoud removed his pakol (hat), threw it in front of him, and said: “If even the size of this pakol remains on Afghan soil, I will stand on it with one foot and fight you on one foot.”
After this meeting, Massoud’s attitude toward the U.S. completely soured.
- Did the U.S. want Massoud to surrender to the Taliban?
- No, they wanted Massoud to hand over power not to the Taliban, but to the Americans themselves! They said: we will create our own government.
- The U.S. also categorically did not want Massoud, yet today it has made peace with the Taliban. Why do you think that is?
- At that very moment, I told Massoud: Amir Sahib, these Americans, as you openly and emotionally said, could physically harm you — you should not have told them that directly. He laughed.
It was thanks to Massoud’s army that the Americans were able to set foot on Afghan soil. But, as is known, they began a policy of “eliminating Massoud”; not only their puppet governments, but even Massoud’s own followers were pushed aside. Why they failed is another matter.
But the U.S. peace with the Taliban is nothing more than maintaining the war and continuing to manage the crisis. If they had supported Massoud, real peace and stability would have been established in Afghanistan.
THIS IS NOT A SIMPLE MATTER…
– Who do you think stands behind Massoud’s assassination?
– They say that Massoud’s assassination was carried out by “Al-Qaeda” (a terrorist organization banned in Russia), Pakistani intelligence services, or even the Taliban — but this is not a simple matter.
Look at the events after his death: he was killed, and two days later, the events in New York occurred. Less than a month passed before U.S. military forces were already on the shores of the Indian Ocean, and their delegations were on the streets of Central Asian capitals.
In November of the same year, the Taliban regime fell. All these events happened in an extremely short time, and the U.S. established its position in the region. If Massoud had been alive, none of this would have happened. Behind the plan to kill him are the intelligence services of dozens of countries, and one day history will bring all of this to light.
– What kind of person was Massoud?
– A decisive person, steadfast in his words, and faithful to his promises. A striking example of a devout Muslim, a cultured Tajik, and a patriot of Afghanistan.
– After returning to Tajikistan, did you meet with Massoud again?
– Yes. I met with him several more times in Dushanbe. Once he was a guest at my home. Another time I visited his house, which was on Karamov Street in Dushanbe, where his children lived. The last time I saw him was three to four months before his death…
– How did you react to his death?
– Honestly, it shocked me deeply. That day, it was as if the sky had fallen on my head. He was a friend and brother to all of us. My heart turned black. Afghanistan changed, but that darkness did not leave my heart. The absence of Massoud will be felt by Afghanistan and the region for many years to come.
